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It's An I Hate Ben Peek Moment!

Come to my blog and leave your hate, and you will be identified with the badge--

--And a link to your comment will be provided.

Sometimes, I wonder if I take this shit too far.




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Sep. 29th, 2006 01:11 pm (UTC)
The support the local scene phenomenon is not endemic to Australia. US gets it too with small press spec-fic. I once was put on a spot: I was bellyaching in a chat room about not being able to sell a particular short story (I can't sell the shorts for the life of me, due to much sucking) and this person i barely knew nearly bit my head off. "How many magazines do you support? I support spec fic by subscriptions. You don't so why would you even try to get published with them? You don't help to prop them up, so why should they buy your work?"

I just sort of sat there stunned. Still remember it three years later. It's bullshit.

That said, your review of the review left a bit of room for interpretation: if a person had a tendency to project, he might read it as "We shouldn't support this because it's crap" rather than "The attitude expressed by this reviewer is crap." People will and do project. You can't help it. Writing - any writing - leaves room for interpetation. During the whole Harla Ellison boobgate, I got yelled at for saying that my first reaction would be to slap the guy. The person responded to my comment by a long rant on how it's unfair and some people who have selfdefense training can't do it, and how I was bad.
Sep. 29th, 2006 01:20 pm (UTC)
That said, your review of the review left a bit of room for interpretation: if a person had a tendency to project, he might read it as "We shouldn't support this because it's crap"

that was my opinion, actually. it was: if this is shit, we shouldn't support it. i took that it was shit, however, from the review, but it's turned out since then that the reviewer meant for it to be more positive, and has since altered his review for that, which is fine. but my original point was very much: if this is shit, we shouldn't support it.

but i meant it in a general kind of way, not related to that specific antho. it all sounds a bit confusing now, but, you know, it got some interesting conversation, so i figure whatever people read it as was good enough. if they project something else, it's cool, but geoff has a habit of following me round and leaving his angry comments, so i don't mind giving him the badge of hate :)

as for the small press, it's a strange world. i heard the same thing as what was said to you a couple of times.

(Deleted comment)
Sep. 29th, 2006 01:48 pm (UTC)
i'm reclaiming hate for myself :)

speak your mind, put your money where your mouth is, it's all good.
Sep. 29th, 2006 01:48 pm (UTC)
You fucking Social Darwinist.
Sep. 29th, 2006 01:49 pm (UTC)
i could t-shirt that...
Sep. 29th, 2006 03:38 pm (UTC)
I don't hate you ben, i find it flattering that you've decided that i'm on your list of folk you want to run into the ground.

and you know, i'm finding it harder to care about what i do, so you just might be winning.
Sep. 29th, 2006 03:52 pm (UTC)
Actually I'm pretty sure the badge is for Geoffry Maloney...
Sep. 29th, 2006 10:37 pm (UTC)
yeah, i thought that was pretty obvious, too.
Sep. 29th, 2006 10:32 pm (UTC)
jesus, russ. i mean this in the nicest way, man, but stop being such a whiny bitch.

i'm not trying to run you into the ground. i don't even have a fucking list of people for that. i actually find what you do is interesting, and i try to support you in that (though i suspect this support is not necessarily wanted these days). i don't agree with everything you say, as shown by that review, but you put these things out there in the public, and i gotta assume that part of you wants people to read and riff on it. you can't control how people are going to do that, but if you're going to be public in your opinions, you gotta be prepared for it to go in a multitude of ways.

it disappoints me that you think i'm trying to run you into the ground, man. it even disappoints me more that after one review and a couple of blog posts (in which the main focus isn't you) that you might be caving in to my imagined plans.
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:55 am (UTC)
But it's not just the public stuff, you also took a swipe at me in your comments to the readers survey. I can't remember the last time you commented on anything I've done or am trying to do that cast me in a positive light. You find what I do "interesting"? Where I come from "interesting" is an insult, it means different but not good.
Sep. 30th, 2006 02:12 am (UTC)
well, perhaps i could have been a bit more succient and less off the cuff in the comments. i thought you were making an unnecessary and artificial distinction between a lot of things genre and australian genre that simply reinforced the percepted stereotypes. i also thought you neglected a lot of the overseas stuff people might buy. but chalk that up for just not thinking it through as i left comments. apologies if you think it was a swipe.

if you think interesting is an insult, what can i do? i don't see it that way, and if you do, maybe it's more a reflection on you than me. i like interesting things. interesting makes me look.

what you're doing is different in australia, but is it good? i have no idea. you've only released TROY, which is hardly an indication of the more progressive plans you talk about: doing novellas and the themed anthos like THE WORKERS PARADISE which actively interact with australia. time will tell if its good or not, and i imagine you'll get more good and bad feedback on these as it goes. how you going to put that into perspective if you can't put this?

that blog entry a couple of days ago was nothing. i used you as a starting point, and then made a comment, and there a bunch of people got into it, discussing if it is indeed right or wrong to promote the local scene with the blanket comment of support the scene. there are a hundred and forty comments! there are outside readers coming in and saying they've done this, bought a collection, and found it to be crap and wanted to be warned; that they were turned off the local scene. then there were locals, talking about if it were right, and even discussing some of OUTCAST. no one attacked you--dave cake said i misrepresented you, and maloney didn't read it, but the fact is, ten or twelve people had a conversation based out of your review and my reading out of it. it lasted a couple of days and it'll go to the next time something like this comes up, and maybe a few people had a few new thoughts, maybe not. some came down on your side, some on mine, some on an entirely new one. in my world, that's all good. that's the perspective you should be looking down at for the last couple of days--not, ben's ragging on me, or ben's not casting me as totally right, or whatever.

look, man, maybe you can't see that, that's fair enough, but interesting things are the only reason to be involved in this game, and as far as i'm concerned, it's a good thing.
Sep. 30th, 2006 07:34 am (UTC)
Ben, you have a habit of making comments about things you don't possess the full facts about. You also have a habit of criticising forks because they don't hold water.

While the survey doesn't cover the areas you would like, I'd like you to know that this survey wasn't made for you.

The survey was developed through consultation with a number of Australian small press editors and publishers to give them answers to what they wanted to know.

This information can then be used in applications for grants, marketing, and in the development of small presses. It seeks to gather data about a bunch of things that, up to now, have been a mix of anecdote and conjecture.

In designing this survey I am aware that it is flawed. I can honestly say that no one knows how flawed this is better than I. From the initial data I can see that some questions have been badly phrased, and have caused confusion.

But it's something to build on. It will hopefully represent a start, and from here people can explore further, and it shows where some of the gaps of knowledge are. It also provides a platform to measure a change of habits over time.

It ain't a floodlight, but it's a more than a candle.
Sep. 30th, 2006 07:51 am (UTC)
dude, you are pissed off with me over what i wrote in a survey? what can i say? i obviously didn't take it as seriously as you intended it--it's a survey. an online one at that. sorry about it, man.
Sep. 29th, 2006 03:39 pm (UTC)
I really don't think he did read the entry. Missed the point entirely which (I thought was)"I'm not going to buy something that isn't good just because of where it is 'manufactured.'" Not that the local scene is bad, or it sucks, or you hate your peers or you never buy local but that quality and something you enjoy are your motivators when you purchase your reading materials.

(My motivation on the other hand... still pity...)

I don't know what it is about you but my oh my you can push people's buttons, hon. Maybe if you write in all caps it will give you an even greater air of authority. :-)
Sep. 29th, 2006 10:35 pm (UTC)


and yeah, he missed the point. see how you got it?
Sep. 29th, 2006 11:46 pm (UTC)
*I'm* a woman of finer sensibilities. I could tell exactly what you were getting at by... you know, reading it. :D

That caps lock thing is awesome. I vote you should use it for all your hate posts.
Sep. 29th, 2006 11:52 pm (UTC)
nah, i got the badge. that's enough.

i hear about women with finer sensibilities ;)
Sep. 29th, 2006 11:54 pm (UTC)
And what you hear about those women is all true. :D
Sep. 29th, 2006 11:57 pm (UTC)
i wouldn't pretend otherwise ;)
Sep. 29th, 2006 11:59 pm (UTC)
How can anyone hate you when you make me laugh so hard? When are you going to come here? I could buy a bunch of badges and prepare the United States for you...
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:02 am (UTC)
heh. i got no idea. there's a few jobs i'm thinking of applying for in the states, so who knows? there's fuck all round here.
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:07 am (UTC)
Think Michigan! It's sweltering hot in the summer and fuck cold in the winter! You'll love it. :-) The girls will love the accent and you can introduce yourself as your alter-ego Dr. Peek. And there are fun things to do in the winter here... yes there are... :D
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:11 am (UTC)
gee, how could i turn that down? heh. nah, i don't know where i'll end. ideally i'd like to stay in sydney, since it's home and all, but there's just nothing as a job here. and if i have to move cities, i might as well go out of the country, and use it to travel round, you know?
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:20 am (UTC)
Well, sure. Home is home. But visiting is good. Maybe you can find some teacher/writer in residence thing. For six months a year. Best of both worlds.

And now that Mr. Stingray is on the run, I suppose it would be safe for me to come to Australia sometime too...
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:26 am (UTC)
yeah, maybe. dunno. the plan would be to move between the two places whatever the time schedule. there's a big break in college semesters, just like here, from what i understand. but, like i said, it's nothing but a plan. it's got to happen first, and the jobs i can apply for now don't start till august next year...

and yes, it's much safer here than in the states. no torture, for example.
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:34 am (UTC)
What? We all know the Geneva Conventions that whole human dignity thing is... vague. You have to DEFINE torture or we don't know when we're doing it. If you love freedom you love to put electrodes on scrotums! (Don't you wish that was funnier? Too real to be funny, isn't it?)

*sigh* my children want my attention and don't understand why I am sitting here chuckling. g'night, Ben. I hate you very much. That should help get you through the day, yes? :)
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:37 am (UTC)
i'm like superman: i need hate for power, like he needs to sun :) anyhow, night!
(Deleted comment)
Sep. 29th, 2006 10:33 pm (UTC)
i love my badge!

and yeah, i am.
Sep. 30th, 2006 12:51 am (UTC)
*hates Ben Peek*

You know, there are probably people wearing that badge who really hate *me*;)

I think the badge is too succinct for Geoff... you should definitely get one done up saying Sydney Intellectual Scumbag... I'd wear one, and I'm not even from Sydney...
Sep. 30th, 2006 02:14 am (UTC)
you know, man, if you ever get attacked cause of me... i'll send you some pretty flowers for the hospital ;)

i don't think i'll over saturate the badge market, to be honest. i don't sell enough i hate ben peek ones for a second to be put into cafe press production. heh.
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